Descaling Engine Heat Exchangers [and other raw water plumbing...]

Is your engine starting to run warmer than usual?

Based upon this descaling article in Practical Sailor, we chose to use CLR (among several tested and rated products) annually to descale the raw water circuits on our propulsion engine and generator (which include several copper-nickle heat exchangers.)  

CLR is also safe to use on the dibghy outboard engine since there is aluminum to be found in its raw water cooling cirsuits.

We chose CLR because it is safer to work with, has no fumes (unlike muriatic acid...) and CLR won't harm any aluminum (or anodes) in the raw water circuit when used as directed in the above article and per manufacturer's instructions. 

CLR is also effective at removing rust stains, cleaning the shower floor and walls, clearing air conditioner/ heat pump raw water circuits, descaling coffee pots, outboard motor cooling circuit, etc., etc. (Everything on a boat should have more than one purpose, right?)

Instead of removing the various heat exchangers and soaking in a bucket, we leave them in place and use a small pump to recirculate 50% diluted CLR (per above linked article) through the raw water coolant loops of the main engine and generator annually.  

If you prefer to purge any raw water from the cooling circuits before descaling, pump some fresh water through first- discharging into the bilge instead of the bucket. Then put your hoses in the bucket of diluted CLR and turn on your recirculation pump.

Recirculating 50% diluted CLR clears the deposits in the raw water side of the heat exchangers. 

Keep it going until the discharge stops foaming.

       

The time elapsed between above photos was ~ 2 hours. (Severe deposits can take hours longer- even overnight...)

The red return line in the above photos is the disconnected exhaust elbow raw water injection hose on our generator (you wouldn't want to hydrolock your engine with the descaling recirculation pump...)

The black hose is the suction hose which normally goes to the raw water through-hull (strainer) for that engine.

 

This is a routine part of our annual maintenance. It also provides an opportunity to inspect the exaust elbow injection site for corrosion since we have to remove that hose to recirculate the descaling solution.

When we are finished with each engine, we dump the bucket of used CLR solution into the bilge with the primary (lowest or maintenance) bilge pump off. (We have several bilge pumps installed- each above the previous- and they are left on, so are covered in an emergency...) 

After adding the 2nd bucket full, we turn on the maintenance bilge pump for a few seconds to fill the discharge hose, and then turn it off again to let everything soak overnight. To empty the CLR from the bilge, capture the bilge pump discharge and dispose of properly. 

Three-way valves strategically placed in the bilge pump discharge and engine raw water hoses mentioned above make this annual maintenance quick and easy with no hoses to remove... (With well planned 3-way valves you could even use the bilge as the bucket, and the maintenance bilge pump to recirculate the descaling mixture...)

Win-Win.

 

______________

Links to related forum discussions:

Nauticat USA Forum 29-Jan-2023 

Cruiser's Forum 27-Jan-2023

Friday Funny 07-17-2020 (Potty Humor)

Pirates and Mermaids.

The Head. I'm not talking about that part of your anatomy that sits on top of your neck, and contains other useful parts like, your brain, ears, nose, eyes, and mouth. I'm talking about the nautical term for a bathroom, restroom, or toilet. Oh yes, I'm going to tell you all about our heads, we have two. (Yes, Bill, and I both have heads, attached to our bodies, and nautical wise.) What's that saying? Two heads are better than one, that's definitely our case here.

Our first guests aboard Denali Rose arrived the first summer we purchased her. One of them stopped up the forward head, and that prompted us to take it out, and replace it with a composting Nature's Head. We should be fair, and say it wasn't really his fault, it had to do with a hose problem, and too tight a corner, but he is an engineer, and his specialty is fluid dynamics, so we are honor-bound to tease him. Subsequent guests have actually preferred the composter to our rear head, which is the typical marine pump.

Forward Head with the Composting Toilet, no smell, we promise.

More than you wanted to know already? Choices: quit now, and go do something else, or keep reading.

There are two camps when it comes to flushing toilet paper down the loo, those who do, and those who don't. We are in the don't group. Don't flush anything you didn't eat first, and that includes toilet paper. We furnish compostable waste bags to put your disposables in, and drop in the waste basket. We cover this info in our, "For Our Guests" tab, so that no one shows up unawares, that is if you read it, (we insist), before you arrive.

Our rear head was originally a manual hand pump, Bill did a refit, and changed it to an electric pump. I loved it, just push a button, and whoosh, whoosh, out goes stuff, and in comes clean water. It had its problems though. We never could get the pump to behave correctly, and it was very enthusiastic about doing the exchange of water. When you wanted to use the head, you usually had to lift the lid, and then wipe inside the lid, and seat before you could sit down, or end up with a wet butt.

The other day, as we're getting serious, (finally), about putting away the project tools, and getting off of the dock, the rear head pump made some interesting noises, and refused to do any more work. Guess what, how do you know the pump has quit? When you've used the head, and need to clear out the contents. Special. Bill ordered a new pump from Amazon, and we waited for it to arrive, while using the forward head exclusively. Yay for having a backup.

I'll just say here, that when it comes to bathroom repairs, my job is to be off the boat while the actual work is being done. 👌😁👍 Since we have the covid thing this summer, going somewhere to wait it out, wasn't really an option. 😒👎

As with most boat issues, when you're dealing with the original problem, its almost a 100percent that you'll find at least one more complication. First thing, Bill had to empty out the cabinet, to get to the pump, (pile stuff in the shower), he sees that one of the connections has been leaking salt water, and probably other stuff. Ugh, that meant a complete disinfection of the contents, and interior before getting to the pump, then a drive out five miles to our storage facility for more marine hose, and new clamps. He had decided to return to a manual pump, and forego the electric ease, but still wanted to put the device inside the cabinet, with a hole for the lever on the outside. 

I would like to say that things went smoothly, but with the level, and variety of inventive language, I could tell it did not. 😡@#*&^%?!  Remember my job from the above paragraph? I pretended I was somewhere else, and stayed out of the way. 🙈🙉🙊

Bill was able to conquer the task, and at 10:30pm, he had the head operating correctly, cleaned up the shower, took a shower, and was ready for dinner. Success is sweet, or at least functional.

As always, we enjoy hearing from you, either here in comments or on our Facebook Denali Rose Sailboat page.

Tidbit: Fresh water as coolant for air conditioning and refrigeration systems

This is one of a series of brief, no nonsense posts that we call aTidbit:

noun; small and [possibly] particularly interesting item of gossip or information...

The purpose is to share succinct posts about lessons learned, or things we use or do that work [or don't...] that are common to most of us boaters. 

Our goal is to garner feedback from those of you having first-hand experience with a different approach/ solution/ product/ or additional useful information to share...  

We never assume what we are sharing is the ideal or only; it just seems to best suit our needs [and/or habits and/or budget] from our experiences thus far...

                               ➛ ➛ Peruse the right-hand sidebar for the up-to-date list of Tidbits ➛ ➛                               

Many boats have pump driven raw water cooling loops for air conditioners [A/C] and refrigeration systems. 

Water cooling is required on the A/C units when the compressor is runing for either cooling or heating [e.g., reverse cycle heating.] 

Water cooling also boosts the DC powered refrigeration system efficiency [beyond the electric fan most have...] when ambient temps in the compressor location exceed 90°F.

Our 3 air conditioners serve two functions: cooling and heating [using either reverse-cycle heat or resistance coils.] We often use the A/Cs for heat when at the dock in cooler weather. [We are currently at 56°N in SE Alaska.] 

Why use electricity?  Where we are, electricity costs about the same as the amount of diesel we would burn if we used our Espar heater, and this way it keeps the hours off the Espar...

We are lucky in that the Pacific waters usually stay warm enough for reverse-cycle heat to work well. [Water temps needs to be above ~42°F for reverse cycle heat to work well...] Therefore our A/C units also have resistance heat coils as a back-up. [i.e., just like a portable electric heater...] But resistance heating is not as efficient and requires more electricity to produce the same amount of heat as reverse cycle does, so if using electric heat, we prefer running reverse cycle on the A/C compressors...

However, since we also enjoy venturing to higher latitudes with even cooler water temps, we experimented with using a potable water tank for the cooling water loops because the water in those tanks [even though they sit low in the hull...] averages 10-20°F warmer than the water we are floating in; Perfect for using reverse cycle heat in colder waters...

This approach of is not new or unique: The previous owner of our boat did just this with one of the refrigeration water cooling loops. Great idea. Lets extend this to the air conditioners/ heat pumps...

For a couple of years now we have been using one of the boat's potable water tanks for all the cooling water loops— instead of raw water. [Our two potable water tanks— 110 gallons each— are low in the hull, but stay warm enough for efficient reverse-cycle heat— even in freezing water.] We dedicated one tank to this use. It is also still a back-up potable tank if needed...

The cooling plumbing can be easily switched back to raw water again if needed via 3-way valves. [We never intend to switch back to raw water, but can if necessary...] If we switched back and forth, we would have to clean and sanitizing the raw water loop[s] before switching back to potable... [More below...]

We should mention all our drinking water runs through a .5µ filter...

The advantages of using fresh water in cooling loops include:

• Greatly reduced maintenance [eliminated really...] on the cooling water pumps and loops with consequent longer lifespan of those components [fresh vs. salt water]
• Fewer open through-hull valves
• Reverse-cycle heat [more efficient than resistance heat] works when it otherwise wouldn't when in cooler raw water temperatures

Some disadvantages are:

• Coolant loops that were initially used with raw water need to be hyper cleaned/sanitized before switching to potable water [if the dedicated tank is also a back-up potable tank...]
• If installing new there is no problem connecting to potable water tankage...
• The potable tank used for these coolant loops is now 'emergency' only back-up for potable water— or we need to remember to turn off the refrigeration water cooling loop, and not use the A/C heat pump[s] 
• We placed a check list next to water tank selector valve as a reminder

To keep the water fresh in this potable water tank used for recirculating cooling water, we routinely pull water from, and immediately refresh this tank when doing laundry while running the watermaker or when at a dock.

This set-up works well for us, and has the added benefit of saving kind souls everywhere from feeling compelled to urgently inform us our bilge pump is running continuously... [Our raw water cooling discharge is above the waterline...]

Can you think of other advantages or disadvantages to this approach?  It has been working well on our boat for years...


Related Posts and Resources:

• DAN Boater Cold water boating tips [A worthwhile read...]
• Cold Water Safety
• Bedding Considerations in Cool Climates
• How Much Water, Anchor Chain, and Heating Fuel do we use?
• Dehumidifier
• Fuel Systems and Consumption
• Heating Systems Considerations
• Hydronic Heat from the Engine
• Air Conditioning? [Living on a boat in hot weather]
• Electrical consumption when staying at the dock in cold weather

Using heat from the engine [hydronic heater cores] [Updated Feb-2021]

We occasionally participate in various boating forums. [See our Some Forums We Read sidebar for links...]

Some of those topics may be relevant here, so once in a while we will repost on our blog for reference.

The following may be one of those cases. To accommodate our non-boating blog readers, sometimes we add some {additional information and links} to the original forum post, below. 

There are also additional references listed at the end of some of these forum posts with related information. 

Link to original forum post [11-Nov-2015]

Re: Adding a heater to boat

---

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboTim  Does anyone know where one can purchase some kind of heater that runs off engine coolant to heat my boat so I can start boating earlier in the year and later in the year?

Hi Tim,

Not knowing anything about the type, size, use, or current/desired cruising grounds for your vessel, I'm providing this feedback in the blind, so it may not apply to your circumstances.

We love the stainless steel Dickinson Radex heater in our pilothouse. [It uses computer pancake fans, so it is quiet- even though our engine isn't...]

In addition, since we have central forced air diesel heat [Espar] we use at anchor or when cool weather sailing, I am preparing to piggyback a hydronic core into the same forced air ductwork to pipe heat throughout our sailboat when we are motoring. [We enjoy winter outings...] This would be supplemental to the previously mentioned Dickinson Radex unit already installed in our pilothouse.

If you are interested in a central hydronic core running using waste heat from your engine(s), I have found that the REAL brand appears to be first rate. [Not that other brands aren't just as good, if not better, but I scrutinized some hydronic core products at the Seattle boat show earlier this year and the REAL brand looked to be superior. However, I haven't purchased anything yet so I cannot provide first hand information about using REAL products... But that is the brand I will be going with.]

I know Sure Marine Service carries the REAL brand and just about every other heating component one might need. [But I haven't done business with them yet...]

I'll close by sharing a couple of thoughts with you regarding the install of hydronic heating loops:

1) Ball valves in coolant loops: We tapped into our engine auxiliary coolant inlet and outlet [same used for your water heater heat exchanger] and installed short bodied ball valves at the engine and to each hydronic loop so we could shut off these coolant loops for maintenance, leaks, or when a hot heater core in the main salon is undesirable...

2) Proper fluid flow: Plumb the hose containing coolant from the engine into the lowest pipe of each hydronic core. [i.e., Coolant flow should be bottom-up in each core- to purge air; just like when changing the lube in an outboard engine lower unit.]
    
    2.1) Longer runs may require the insertion of an additional coolant pump [12 VDC or to spec.] in the hose circuit to ensure adequate coolant flow throughout the system.

3) Bleeding air from hydronic loops can be quite a chore as the top of each loop is not always conveniently accessible.

To make this easy, we use small, float style [NOT Schrader valve style; e.g., use the Watts FV-4M1 1/8] automatic air bleeders used in home boiler heating systems. [Cheap at ~US$10-15/each. Sometimes found in the box stores...]

Typically we install a T at the top [high point] of each hydronic core and install the bleeder on top of a small ball valve [to isolate the bleeder when not needed, and for maintenance...  i.e., Where the coolant return line to the engine exits the core.] Basically, air bleeders need to be installed at a high point in each coolant loop.

We installed air bleeders on our water and bus heaters. They eliminate manual bleeding- even when first commissioning a hydronic system, and anytime the engine coolant is changed...

In case this is useful.

Cheers!

Bill

__________________

Additional References:

• Worthwhile discussion on plumbing engine into hydronic heater loop

___________________________________________________________________


Follow-up post [11-Nov-2015]

Re: Adding a heater to boat

---

Quote:

Re: Adding a heater to boat Bill, I have existing diesel forced air ducting in our new to us boat (but no forced air system currently), would be very interested in hearing more details about how you plan to piggyback into the whole ducting system... I would consider doing that instead of installing a Red Dot heater if it seemed manageable for the semi (semi-semi?) skilled. Quote: Originally Posted by wrwakefield  In addition, since we have central forced air diesel heat [Espar] we use at anchor or when cool weather sailing, I am preparing to piggyback a hydronic core into the same forced air ductwork to pipe heat throughout our sailboat when we are motoring. Wow, these are three super useful suggestions for this... printing this one out now... thanks! Quote: Originally Posted by wrwakefield  1) Ball valves in coolant loops: 2) Proper fluid flow: 3) we use small, cheap, automatic air bleeders used in home boiler heating systems.

Thanks, Bass.

I'm glad some of it was useful for you.

RE: Having both diesel and hydronic heat sources sharing the same forced-air ductwork, there are a lot of variables, but that doesn't mean it has to be complicated.

For example, my Espar is mounted in my engine room [which is underneath my pilothouse.] The Espar has one main duct that branches outside of the engine room to feed 5 outlets positioned throughout the boat.

It is important to note that the Espar return air is ducted outside the engine room in an adjacent cabin [not outdoors... direct marine air wreaks havoc on these heaters...] This means odors from the engine room aren't being distributed throughout the vessel when that unit is running...

I will do the same with whichever hydronic unit I install.

As far as tying into the existing forced air duct, my first try will be simple: I will just insert a Y [not a 90° T...] in the heat duct near the Espar. [One with a diverter flap; e.g., A purpose made unit like this one for heating systems- similar in concept to those you can buy for diverting your clothes dryer vent into the house...] I plan to run a control cable to it for convenient access, and add switching that heat source flap to the check list for turning on the heaters.

I haven't done all of the engineering yet, but some considerations include:

1) BTUs available from engine waste heat [i.e., You can only tap so much heat from a particular engine without causing it to run at lower that desired temperatures. This can be somewhat mitigated by using the individual coolant loop ball valves I mentioned in my previous post as flow controls...]

2) Airflow capacity of existing ductwork: e.g., My Espar D5 pushes 137 CFM air on high. The hydronic cores I'm looking at push almost twice that much. [e.g., I reference a unit, below, that pushes 206 CFM.]

Will that be too much air flow for the existing duct network? [e.g. excessive duct noise, heat loss, etc.] If so, I plan to mitigate by running a couple of new ducts from the new hydronic core to areas adjoining the engine room [e.g., galley, workroom, and pilothouse] thus reducing airflow into main duct system. That would not be difficult in my boat, but does start to dilute the concept of sharing duct work and subsequent shorter installation time and cost...

Multiple ducts could easily be accomplished [in my set-up] with a unit like this one...

I hope this all makes sense. I'm just sharing my initial thinking before I have delved into the minutia... My approach may require adjustments once I get to that stage...

Cheers!

Bill

__________________
SV Denali Rose

Short on opinions; focused on research, facts & experience [yours and ours...]

_______________________________________________________

Additional References:

• Here is an article about installing forced air heat on a boat from Yachting Monthly
• Related Posts and Resources:
  
  
  • DAN Boater Cold water boating tips [A worthwhile read...]
  • Bedding Considerations in Cool Climates
  • How Much Water, Anchor Chain, and Heating Fuel do we use?
  • Dehumidifier
  • Fuel Systems and Consumption
  • Heating Systems Considerations
  • Hydronic Heat from the Engine
  • Air Conditioning? [Living on a boat in hot weather]
  • Electrical consumption when staying at the dock in cold weather

New Water Heater

We occasionally participate in various boating forums. [See our Some Forums We Read sidebar for links...]

Some of those topics may be relevant here, so once in a while we will repost on our blog for reference.

In this case it relates to one of our spring 2015 commissioning projects, the new 40 liter IsoTemp SPA water heater... [Photo below; Installation Manual]

Original Forum Post: [3-Mar-2015]

Re: Gotta get a new water heater

---

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moparots  Hello all new boat owner here, I pulled out the old rusty leaking water heater on my 36Morgan OI. Previous owners had it set up for AC from shore power only. What is every ones opinion on new water heater brands? The old one was not set up for a engine heat exchanger, how easy is it to install that? Hoses from the water pump? (Westerbeke 44AFour) Can I get a water heater with the heat exchanger option and not use it? maybe hook it up at a later time. Looked at the Kuuma, inexpensive. simple 6 gal capacity. Just looking for every ones thoughts.

I am preparing to do the same thing. After researching I went with an IsoTemp SPA Model [Polypropylene outer jacket vs stainle$$; Mfg# 6P4023SPA0003] for several reasons:

• Built-in mixing valve [Prevent scalding when engine heats it to 180F.]
• Super insulated [hot tank purported to last 24+ hours by other owners]
• SS tank and heat exchanger [no zincs...]
• 750 watt [1200w available] 115 or 230VAC electric element [half of the usual 1500 watt]
  True, slower to heat from electric, but less load on shore power/generator... And you can set thermostat much higher than usual e.g., 160F to take advantage of that mixing valve and get more usable hot water per charge
• Mounts Horizontally or vertically

I'll post a blog entry when I complete that project in early May.

Here is a link to Defender's listings FYI.

I hope this is helpful.

__________________
-Bill
SV Denali Rose
Few opinions; only choices based on facts & experience.

Follow-up post: [30-Jul-2015]

Re: Gotta get a new water heater

---

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admiral Nelson  I just installed an Isotemp SPA water heater 8 gallons and found that the water does not stay warm for more than 12 hours. Isotemp claim to be 24 hours which has been my experience so far. I was wondering what was everyone's experience with their tank. You have hot water for how long?

Hi Admiral,

We recently completed the installation of the IsoTemp 40 liter Spa water heater I mentioned earlier in this thread. [Mfg# 6P4023SPA0003] My Admiral is very pleased with the results [It replaced a 6 gallon perfectly functional Raritan unit...]

[For those researching new water heaters: We paid US$520 - including USPS shipping to Alaska- for the IsoTemp Spa water heater from Fisheries Supply. This seems to be much more in line with other water heater pricing than I see discussed in this thread...]

You didn't mention the specifics of how hot the water is [or isn't] before and after your 12 hour period of heat retention, nor your usage once the heating source is off. You also didn't mention some of the other environmental factors that will influence your results.

For example, on our boat the engine heats the water to 180° - 190°F and I have the mixing valve [the one that comes installed on the IsoTemp] adjusted to 120°F [the temp of the water you get at the taps.] This mixing of 'superheated' water with cold to achieve the desired temperature at the tap yields 2 to maybe 3 times the tank volume of usable hot water (meaning pleasant showers...)

These are our results, which are likely lower than those of you with warmer 'cold' water per the following:

Note: The ambient water temp of our tanks- which lie against the hull- approach the ambient water temp we boat in- currently mid 40's F or cooler in winter and Mid 50's F in summer... If we're lucky... Mixing warmer cold water will yield even better results... [e.g., 70°F+ cold water would yield 3- possibly 4 times the mixed hot water volume vs. the 2-3 we currently enjoy...]

Regarding heat retention as relates to insulation: Our water and space heaters are installed in the enclosed engine room (which averages 110°F ambient temp while motoring.) When we anchor, we still have hot water 48 hours later if little has been used. If more is used (i.e., if more cold is mixed with the superheated tank of water- say a couple of showers) then of course it doesn't last as long- perhaps 24-36 hours- but we are still gathering data... We find it plenty for 4+ hot showers [2 adults; pausing water flow while bathing; still having to mix in some cold water to get desired temperature...] over a 3 day period, and dishes, etc.

To maximize our hot water retention at anchor, when possible we shower, etc, while motoring so the water heater has enough time to reach maximum temp before shutting down the engine.

One aspect of our install regarding longevity of hot water is our engine room also warms up to 80°F+ when we run the Espar heater, which is also installed there... The engine room rarely cools off below 60°F [even in 20° to 30°F ambient outdoor temperatures] and then only after days at anchor with no or little heat demand [e.g., sunny days in winter- below ~60°N- in our pilothouse reduce the run time for the Espar during those periods...]

This 'warm' engine room environment reduces the burden on the IsoTemp insulation.

If yours is cooling off prematurely without you using any or little hot water, try insulating the hot lines immediately adjacent to the heater, as some conductive heat loss occurs there... You could also further insulate the tank itself if it resides in a cool environment.

You may also want to check the cold water line into the heater after an hour or so of no water being run. If it is warm or hot a small distance from the water heater, you may have a thermal siphon situation and need to install a check-valve or re-route the water line(s).

I also recommend you do some temperature measurements and track hot water usage after the heat source is off so you can estimate the heat loss factors.

An IR thermometer (or IR camera, or low tech version: your bare hand...) will reveal any insulation deficiencies in the IsoTemp insulation layer.

I hope this is helpful.

__________________
-Bill
SV Denali Rose
Few opinions; only choices [good and bad...] based on facts & experience.

This is a work-in-progress photo of the 11 gallon IsoTemp water heater install.
[Horizontal grey cylinder at top of photo. The red pipes are structural support for new water heater; not plumbing.]
The 6 gallon water heater [lower left] it is replacing is still in use in this photo.
The red heater hose on the sole is the rough-in for a new Dickinson Radex 'bus' heater being installed in the pilothouse.

_______________________________________
Additional References:

• Related post detailing some engine coolant loop plumbing considerations 

Bilge Pump thoughts and feedback

We occasionally participate in various boating forums. [See our Some Forums We Read sidebar for links...]

Some of those topics may be relevant here, so once in a while we will repost here for reference.

The following may be one of those... [Link to original forum post]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utahsailor  Planning to install a second float switch a few inches above the present one for a second bilge pump. 1. Is there a problem sharing the present outflow line between the two pumps 2. recommendations for bilge pumps 3. An alarm will be added to the second switch, recommendations? 4. Does anyone have experience with a simple cell based alerting system for this and othersecurity needs? Sorry for the blizzard of questions but last few weeks have been heavy work weeks.

Hi Utah Sailor,

Some quick responses sharing what we chose to do based on past experience in several cruising sailboat:

1- Sharing discharge line: Don't. You are inviting problems and reduced flow. Run separate, appropriately sized discharge lines for each pump.

2- Pumps: We use the Whale SuperSub automatic pumps for our maintenance pumps [i.e., keep the bilge dry..] They have proved to be very dependable, leave only a 1/4" of water remaining, and don't generate any noticeable IR on the radios...

We also put a simple counter on our primary bilge pump and that count gets recorded in the daily log...

If you don't use an automatic bilge pump as your primary, you may want to consider installing a delay circuit so the pump doesn't cycle on and off in a lumpy anchorage... [i.e., a simple 15 second delay works wonders on the float style pumps. The CruzPro EFS20 has this capability and more built in to their bilge pump monitoring device...]

Secondary pump(s)- use the biggest you can afford, or two... or three...

If going offshore, consider a crash pump: you only need it once...

3- Alarm; something that is too loud. We have our high-water alarm on a deafening piezo unit inside the boat, and it is also connected to the airhorn to alert fellow cruisers and us on shore... [if anyone is within earshot...] ALWAYS make sure you can mute alarms. Once you are alerted they have served their purpose and from then on only interfere with communications during a time you can least afford it.

Side note: We can activate the high-water alarm from within our cabin as part of our personal security plan... [e.g., in case of uninvited, unwanted guests, an emergency, etc.]

4- Security System: Last year I installed the cell based system from Siren Marine because we had to unexpectedly leave the boat over winter to tend to land based responsibilities elsewhere... It saved the day a couple of times [blog references below...] Great unit, lots of features, remotely programmable, and excellent customer service... The provided SIM card works in 180 countries... Details about the choice and installation are in this blog post. If you are interested, you can read about how it already paid for itself...

Have fun with your projects. They are all worthwhile...

__________________
-Bill
SV Denali Rose

Follow-up posts in the same thread:

Re: Adding second bilge pump

---

Quote:

Originally Posted by HopCar  "We also put a simple counter on our primary bilge pump and that count gets recorded in the daily log..." I think a counter is a great idea but I'm also thinking an hour meter might give you more useful information. What do you guys think?

Good thinking: recording the time [pump run durations] is the other half of the equation... I tried in years past to find a timer that would record short durations and ended up with a simple 12VDC analog clock that was only on for the time the pump ran.

The analog clock would advance a few seconds/minutes each time the pump ran and turn off again. Start it at noon and you have our total run time since your last reset to noon.

[Hour meters usually record in 10th's of hours so aren't as useful for this purpose... It would take many months before my primary bilge pump would reach the 6 minute mark for total run time and advance the hour meter by a 10th. There may be other meters out there that record shorter durations (minute meters?) but I haven't looked because we have an alternate method for gathering that info, below...]

On our current boat, the remote vessel monitoring system I mentioned in my earlier response on this thread] takes care of that for us [it still records whether we have cell connectivity or not and updates when within cell coverage. [It sends a text alert when the primary bilge pump starts and again when stops running, among many other things...]

We love useful data too!

Cheers!

__________________
-Bill
SV Denali Rose

---

Following is a related post regarding Whale IC bilge pumps. [1-Jan 2016]

Re: Pumps, pumps and more pumps.

---

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winf  Ok, tired of dodgy impeller bilge pumps and want to upgrade to something robust and reliable. Looking at the Whale range. Anyone with experience with the Whale IC range of pumps? Like the simplicity of the system, just not sure about the reliability of the electronic wizardry. In the bilge, looking at the Bilge IC unit. Alternative to this would be a Whale Gulper 220 rigged up to a standard float switch arrangement. In the shower/sink sump, looking at installing a Whale Grey IC to eliminate the wet sump and having to clean up gross soapy scum. Not sure what the alternative to the auto switching manifold is but it needs to eliminate the wet sump arrangement. Cost of the IC is high but prepared to pay for quality, reliable equipment. Thanks for any comments. Winf

Hi Winf,

I've used the Whale Bilge IC pumps on two different boats, and in a friend's house basement sump [to protect him during power outages...] with 100% success.

Perhaps the basement sump is the best test case of the IC as he reports it running ~80% of the time for days on end during heavy rains on the US east coast [subjective]. It is pumping against a 10ft head of 1 1/2in pipe- the maximum allowed in the Whale specs for that pump- and keeps up with his needs. [Like a boat, I backed it up with a 4k gal/hr high water pump.]

I have one in my current boat as the 'nuisance' water pump in the main bilge. It is there to remove as much water as possible [usually down to the last ~3/8" or 1cm..] and help keep the bilge dry. I rely on 3 other bilge pumps mounted at increasing heights to handle water flow and depths that the Whale IC can't handle. [i.e., Emergency pumps.] I've yet to record one of those other 3 pumps activating [each pump has a cycle counter] during routine operations- even when I flush the bilge with a shore water hose.

I like the IC model with the built-in check valve. It seems to work well. The one in my friend's basement is the best test with 10ft of head and silty water. I just inspected it in Nov-2014 and it [the pump and the built-in check valve] was holding up well after 14 months active duty.

The solid state water sensor works well, you just have to make sure the pump is level so the intake is never above the sensor or the pump will not shut off... Also, you can test the sensor of a dry pump by placing your hand on it for ~10 seconds; that makes the pump cycle on.

I also intend to replace the Rule pump and float switch in my shower sumps with Whale IC pumps when the time comes...

In case this helps with your decision.

Cheers!

Bill

________________________________________________________________

Below is another related post, this one regarding bilge pump switches. 

[20-Jan 2016]

Re: Bilge Switch Shopping (it's overwhelming)

---

Quote:

Originally Posted by allanbranch  There seems to be large variety of bilge float switches. For reference I have a 30' Morgan project boat. Just a few mercury-free rolling ball mechanism "Super Switch" Some other mercury free switch. Digital switch When I search amazon for bilge switch, so many kinds of switches and price ranges come up. Has anyone wrote a "beginners guide to float switches"? What do you recommend? Your wisdom is appreciated.

Hi Allan,

After having 5 boats over the years, I have given up on mechanical float switches and gone to solid state- which continue to remain reliable.

Several solid state offerings have already been suggested in this thread.

Another to be aware of is from CruzPro. They offer a solid state [probe style] switch, but the main part is their controller. They also make many other gauges and devices worth knowing about. Great company to do business with.

One thing I find useful in my current [last?] boat is a brief time delay [currently 15 seconds...] before the bilge pump activates. This is because my lowest bilge is a wide, flat and level bottomed well just forward of the engine... [e.g., ~2 ft x 2 ft with no smaller sump for a pump] so a small amount of water can slosh around for a while, activating the bilge pump unnecessarily- and often- without the time delay in place...

To my knowledge, both the CruzPro and Water Witch offer a time delay. There may be others offering this capability as well, and many bilge designs may not benefit from a time delay...

In case this is useful.

Cheers!

Bill