Tidbit: Walkie-Talkies [GMRS Radios] for casual comms

This is one of a series of brief, no nonsense posts that we call a Tidbit:

noun; small and [possibly] particularly interesting items of gossip or information...

The purpose is to share succinct posts about lessons learned, or things we use or do that work [or don't...] that are common to many of us boaters. 

This post is also worthy for listing in our Stuff we have and use sidebar —>

The goal is to garner feedback from those of you having first-hand experience with a better approach/ solution/ product...  

We never assume what we are sharing is the ideal or only; it just seems to best suit our needs [and/or habits and/or budget] from our experiences thus far...

Sometimes these Tidbits originate from a topic of discussion on one of the forums we participate in, and this happens to be one: Link to original post [27-Mar-2024]

Since we encounter this question on occasion, it made sense to post a more detailed response for future reference.

                               ➛ ➛ Peruse the right-hand sidebar for the up-to-date list of Tidbits ➛ ➛                               

Many users [ourselves included] use hand held Marine VHF radios to maintain comms when some or all crew are off the mother ship [on land or other watercraft] in remote areas.

Sometimes these are not appropriate- especially if you need to issue radios to several different guests off exploring in different directions since other vessels in the area might also hear the conversations [and we might occupy marine channels those actually boating need to use…]

Therefore, we have always keep a few [5; lost 1 over the years] cheaper, general use GMRS radios onboard for years for the same purpose. 

They work great. 

And once [so far…] on a remote kayaking trip, these radios were of great assistance during an emergency when one of 3 of kayakers [each with their own GMRS Radio] broke their wrist [during inclement weather; e.g., It was a dark and stormy night…] because of a fall on ice while hiking alone. 

There are several Walkie-Talkie radio types available, and are well described on this forum post.

Note: Last I knew [in the US anyway] technically you need an FCC license to use the high power GMRS channels, but that may have changed.

We issue them to guests whenever they are venturing off the boat [e.g., kayaking, SUP, dinghy, or hiking on land- remote or in a town.]

For safety, we do also issue those off on their own waterborne adventures from the mothership Marine VHF radios [and PLBs] for emergency use. [e.g., As we tell visitors ‘In case the mothership is struck by a meteor while you are away…’]

Coordination with users who may not be used to using radios:

About 15 years ago, we color coded ours with a wrap of different colored electrical tape on each antenna [useful when wanting to hail someone anonymously; original tape is still going strong…]

Photo taken Mar-2024; Taped applied ~ 2008?

We have fun making up bogus call signs:  [Sounds cool and officious; Less prone to interruptions by other radio users not in your group in crowded locations- like big cities- where we would likely be using cell phones anyway…]

Charley-Alpha-Kilo-Oscar, this is Charley-Alpha-Kilo-Bravo 

[Candy-Ass Kayaker Orange (antenna tape), this is … Blue…]

For distance use when separated, our protocol is to start/ hail first on a specified low power channel (e.g., GMRS 13; 1 watt- for better battery life) then, if unsuccessful raising the other party(ies), switch to a specified high power channel (e.g., GMRS 14; 5 watts?) and try again… [This works best with a comms schedule- e.g., everyone check in every 30 mins.]

Battery considerations: 

We prefer electronics that can use the Panasonic Eneloop rechargeable batteries [AAA, AA] we standardized on almost 20 years ago [still rate among the best for low self-discharge rates; e.g., long shelf life once charged.] This is so we can issue spare batteries for the GMRS issued to those traveling a distance from the boat [just in case… There aren’t any charging stations handy when traveling by kayak, sup, or hiking in remote locations…]

Sidebar: Radios are half - duplex [only one can speak- or more accurately, be heard- at a time, and then you have to release the PTT button to listen… If you want to…] Even if VOX [voice activation] is used. This is very adequate for most of our use cases, and what VHF radio users are used to. [This paradigm is also perfect for certain couples; some have even confided they found that judicious use of their personal volume control very satisfying…]

But for ‘real time’ comms on the boat [volume up; e.g., anchoring, hauling anchor, mooring, etc.- especially in sporty conditions] we prefer full-duplex headsets [you can still hear the other person if you are talking- like a phone; no PTT (push-to-talk) button.]. Nothing missed that way…

We do recognize that some relationships claim to attribute their longevity to only one member being able to [or being the only one to ever] speak [be heard?] at a time [half-duplex; the other party remaining silent until the speaker is finished- reportedly sometimes for long periods thereafter- or has released the button on the radio in our case…] 

But there are situations when the ability to interrupt is necessary [if not sometimes risky…] hence our preference for full-duplex headsets for real-time comms during boat maneuvers… [Always with carefully modulated volume— of one’s own voice of course. After all, they didn’t nickname these headsets ‘Marriage Savers’ arbitrarily…]

  

Please share your experiences, choices, and recommendations. We learn something new every day…

Feline Crew Ladder

We love our feline crew.

If they go for a swim while we are at anchor, we want them to be able to self-rescue.

Since our boat has no swim platform, we braided some stiff, old, retired docklines [3/4” 3-strand nylon] into a feline crew ladder- which we always deploy when at anchor. [That crew has no free roaming deck privileges when underway…] 

We left a loop at the top for hanging on a cleat, and clubbed the bottom. It extends about a foot below the water surface, so could never get caught up in the high speed underwater winch, but facilitates use by a swimming gato. 

To introduce it to the crew when it was new, we temporarily fastened it to the mast and anointed it with catnip…

We made this hawse ladder several years ago,  and it has held up well [and thankfully has yet to be used.]

We sometimes spend weeks at a time lying at anchor, so the underwater portion of the rope will invite some growth and creatures. It is easily cleaned when we forget to retrieve it while getting underway, and is ultimately dragged along in the water at 6-8 knots for a while…  

Yes, we are occasionally asked by other boaters [a rare occurrence where we hang out…] what it is for…

Tidbit: Diesel Fireplace Heater- Tips for Installation and Use

This is one of a series of brief, no nonsense posts that we call a Tidbit:

noun; small and [possibly] particularly interesting items of gossip or information...

The purpose is to share succinct posts about lessons learned, or things we use or do that work [or don't...] that are common to many of us boaters. 

The goal is to garner feedback from those of you having first-hand experience with a better approach/ solution/ product...  

We never assume what we are sharing is the ideal or only; it just seems to best suit our needs [and/or habits and/or budget] from our experiences thus far...

Sometimes these Tidbits originate from a topic of discussion on one of the forums we participate in, and this happens to be one. [The original forum response- which includes additional details- is linked below.]

Since we encounter this question fairly often- and since it may affect other boaters- it made sense to post a more detailed response for future reference.

                   ➛ ➛ Peruse the right-hand sidebar for the up-to-date list of Tidbits ➛ ➛                   

It is rare to find a vessel that doesn't have some type of non forced-air diesel heater up here. 

Some people report continuing issues with sooting on deck using this kind of heater.

This post is a quick brain dump listing installation and usage parameters I have found to help minimize sooting. I ​rarely see any dirty decks​- ​but it can happen.​ 

Below I'll list the ranked causes of sooting with this kind of heater that I've experienced​ over time.

​I have had heaters like this on 4 of 5 boats I've owned over the past 4 decades. All were full time cruisers I used in higher latitudes. (>56°N in the Pacific.)​

​In Fall 2021 installed a​ Sig Marine 120 (pretty equivalent to the Dickinson Newport) ​on our current boat. In winter it ​is only been off a handful of times (when the boat is unoccupied) since November while we work on some winter projects at the dock. No soot. No backdrafting. (But we have been using this type of heater in 4 boats over the past 4 decades, so the learning curve is well absorbed.)

We find the heater output is too much in our 43 ft ​ketch if ambient temps are ​in the 40's °F. We then have to open ports and hatches to keep from overheating on the lowest setting- ​if we do light it in those temps...​ (This boat has several redundant sources of heat.)​

Our ​SIGMAR ​heater is on the lowest setting most of the time- ​sometimes elevated ​closer ​to a medium setting when ​its single digits above zero F and blowing outside...

What ​experience can I share specifically about this size and type of heater with a 3" flue​?​ (Following is a ​dense ​​overview full of hints about things I think I have learned over time- only for those truly interested...)

Here is Dickinson's version for reference.


Installation is important:

• Keep ​the total ​flue length ​a ​minimum of 6 ft, max of 8 ft
  
  
• Straight flue is best. 
• ​I​f you must dog​-​leg​ the​ flue​, don't use more than 2 elbows, and use the smallest angle you can- with nothing greater than 45°.
  

The barometric damper is properly adjusted in this photo of the heater in use.

The shield installed on top of the angled flue [to help shield the headliner]  and the vertical solid filler [right in photo] behind the perforated flue guard [left, but not showing much in this photo, but is prominent in the first photo of this post] were both fashioned from pieces cut from a single snap together 3" SS flue pipe.

• Install a barometric damper​ [see above photo]
• Locate it​ no further than 24 inches from where the flue exits the heater​, and no closer to the heater than 12 inches. 
• Be sure they are improperly installed and adjusted.
• Carefully adjust the ​barometric ​damper per manufacturer's instructions​ (I inserted a photo of our barometric damper with the heater on low, above, for reference.)​
• Most complaints about sooting are about installs lacking a barometric damper (and occasionally from improper adjustment of one that is installed.)

• Use an H cap​ (Charley-Nobel) in breezy conditions​. We have found it to be consistently better at handling wind gusts than the round version​ (in our testing and experience​.)

  

This is our typical flue set-up if expecting windy conditions. The flue extension length was determined by testing different lengths and caps during the same steady 20kt wind conditions. 

As mentioned in the main text, this 3" flue gets covered with a 4" flue sleave [note to self; need photo...] in cold weather to help maintain inner flue temperature, and consequently draft. [This 4" flue cover adds the side benefit of being cooler, and thus less threatening to bare skin and meltable fabrics the crew might be wearing in winter.]

We remove the flue and cap it off when not at anchor or at the dock; photo further down.

 

​ We sometimes use a round cap in calm conditions- typically fringe heating season overnighters.

• If planning to use the heater in temps cooler than about +20°F [-7°C] for extended periods, have a length of larger diameter flue pipe [4 inch diameter covers our main 3 inch flue well] you can ​temporarily ​slide over the primary flue above deck to provide a layer of insulation- helping ​to ​keep the main flue warm​ to promote a consistent draft in cold weather.​
• This insuilating sleave adds the side benefit of being cooler, and thus less threatening to bare skin and meltable fabrics the crew might be wearing in winter.

• Duct combustion air from ​an ​enclosed, vented space (our's draws from the engine room. This is where the bulk of the soot will go if you ever suffer an extreme backdraft.​ More below.)​
  
  
• Install a gravity feed day tank if you don't want to listen to a fuel pump burp every second or so while running the heater.
• Install a valve on the tank before the fuel hose.
  
  (Our day tank is filled by the 12 volt fuel pump that runs the tank transfer/polishing loop.)

• The day tank overflows back into the starboard fuel tank when full.

• Install a small shut-off valve at the fuel inlet on the heater. Develop the habit of closing it when the heater is off.
  
  This is a safety against fuel flowing through the overflow- draining the day tank- in the future when the small o-ring on the carburetor needle valve tip fails. (Ask me how I know this.)

• ​Run the overflow from the carburetor to the fuel tank if possible (vs. an overflow bottle.)
  
  If you do this, install a valve on that port on the heater, and remember to close that valve temporarily when fueling the tank the return goes to- but only if you don't want to back-fill the heater if you overfill the boat. (i.e., fuel up the fuel fill hose- which will be higher than the heater carburetor...)​
  
  
• ​Remove the above deck portion of the flue when the heater is not in use for extended periods, and always before getting underway.
  
  Secure the flue opening with the water tight cap made for the through-deck fitting installed on your boat.

  

Operational considerations:

• #1 diesel (AKA Heating oil​;​ kerosene​)​ burns much cleaner than #2 (The carburetor must be adjusted to match fuel selected​. See manufacturer's instructions.​)
  
  
• When first turning on fuel after preheat, ​set to medium ​flame size for at least 10 mins to warm the heater and flue. Then start turning ​it ​up/ down a little bit at a time- pausing a few minuites between adjustments for the heater to equilibrate to the new setting.​ (This is not a thermostat; it is a fuel flow meter... give the heater time to adjust to each new setting.​)

What causes sooting? (Note that sooting either vents out of flue top onto the deck, or when back​ ​pressured into boat via the combustion air intake in the bottom of the heater.)​ If [when?] it happens, either Krud Kutter, Davis FSR, and Someone To Do It cream cleaner are the magical soot removers...

Following are the primary reasons sooting occurs, in order of their occurrence from my experience.​

• Cause #1: Preheating the heater using diesel fuel ​with a tissue paper ​wick as the manual instructs. This causes a build up of soot in the flue and in the bottom of the burn chamber over time.
  
  Instead, we use ab​o​ut 3/4 of an ounce of denatured alcohol [AKA alcohol stove fuel; typically available where paint is sold]- and​ a long neck lighter instead of​ tissue paper​​ to ignite it. We​ pour the alcohol into the middle of the COLD heater chamber, turn ​the ​combustion air fan on low; lite ​the ​alcohol​ (the fan being on keeps the alcohol from 'poofing' when you light it.)​ When the alcohol flame starts going below the burner ring​ (​2-3 mins on average​) turn on the fuel flow to a medium setting, and t​urn off ​the ​combustion air fan​ (​unless it is blowing outside... more on that, below.​)​
  
  
• Cause #2: On our stove, we ALWAYS make sure the flame is above the 'top burner ring' otherwise there is too much combustion air and not enough fuel = soot. Slightly increase the fuel flow to correct this issue.
  
  Side Note: that top burner ring is removable. Don't assume it is installed correctly. It can also cause a miriad of flame and soot issues if incorrectly installed. (Read the manual!)
  
  
• Cause #3: Too much fuel and not enough combustion air = SOOT! (i.e., Too large of a flame.)
  
  Either decrease fuel flow, or turn the combustion air fan on and adjust the air flow to optimize the flame.
  
  I believe this is the #1 cause of sooting on deck: people turning the heater up too high in hopes of heating the boat faster.
  
  
• Related Cause #3.5: As the heater warms after being first lit, in a few hours the carburetor will warm, thinning the fuel it contains, thereby causing the fuel to flow faster. This results in the flame size slowly increasing- perhaps unnoticed- and possibly getting large enough to cause sooting as described in #3.
  
  Be aware of this, and keep an eye on the flame. Always.
  
  
• Cause #4: Rapid wind gusts (over 35 knots for our installation) COMBINED with negative static pressure inside the boat​​ can snuff out the flame and cause a woof when the still flowing fuel reignites in the hot burn chamber- blowing soot out every small crack and the flue and air intake openings. This is the most dreaded.
  
  It ​sometimes ​happens to us when we experience katabatic gusts (williwaws)- typically in glacial fjords in certain conditions. Think zero to 60 knots in ​under 10​ seconds.​
  
  S​ometimes ​slightly opening a hatch or port will help ​prevent a negative static pressure inside the boat ​in catabatic conditions​; ​and sometimes turning on the combustion air fan​ ​and increasing its speed to balance the wind gusts​-​ or a combination- ​helps prevent the flameouts.​

• Cause #5: [A minor contributor] When turning off the heater (by stopping the flow of fuel) turn the combustion fan on low for the few minutes [~10] it takes for the flame to completely extinguish. (A tiny flame flickers in the bottom of the burn pot for several minutes- burning off residule fuel.) Running the combustion fan during cool-down helps prevent small amounts of soot and smoke, and clears fuel odors from the heater.

I hope this quick brain dump is useful, and that I didn't forget anything critical.

These heaters are very ​safe if installed properly, and ​worthwhile if you ​are patient enough to learn how to use them. It is important to be very observant as you go through the learning curve of using and adjusting this type of heater​, and develop the habit of scrutinizing the flame (and adjusting when necessary) on a routine basis. ​

​We love the fireplace ambience that comes with the nice radiant heat.​

Do you have any tips and tricks to share on this topic?

_________________________

Link to original forum post 1-Feb-2023 which spawned this blog post.

PS: We are occasionally asked about how we installed the through-deck plate [AKA deck iron] when some of you notice we didn't use the typical teak ring to account for the deck angle.

Ignore the chain hook and line which shows in the two photos preceeding this one.

I was using a line to keep a small amount of tension on the top flue so it didn't lean over before the gasket set-up.

We used Sikaflex 291. [Paintable; sandable; heat resistent; can also be used underwater...]

Here are the basic steps we took to install the deck iron using Sikaflex as the spacer:  [Sorry, I was by myself and it wasn't convenient to take photos of every step along the way...] In fact, I suspect it took me almost as long to detail the following in writing as it did to perform the install - not including locating and cutting the flue clearance hole through the deck...

After the hole is made through the deck: [Measure 99+ times, then drill a small pilot hole to confirm (e.g.,  A 1/8" hole that can easily be epoxied closed if the position is incorrect...)  Then cut the main flue clearance hole as recommended by the manufacturer...]

Then...

1. Set the deck iron flat on the deck [no wedge yet] centered over the hole.
2. Rotate it so that the fasteners fall where you prefer them to be.
3. Apply wide painter's tape [e.g., 2" wide] around the perimeter of the deck iron, with the centerline of the tape on the joint between deck and deck iron [half the tape width on the deck iron, the other half on the deck.]
4. Mark where you will drill the pilot holes for your fasteners of choice.
5. Carefully slice the tape at the very edge of the deck iron with a very sharp blade.
6. Lift the deck iron from the deck and firmly press all remaining tape edges down onto the deck and the deck iron perimeter. 
1. This is what will keep the Sikaflex edge neat when you are finished- with little to no clean-up needed.
7. Insert a short length [e.g., 3" long] piece of oversize flue [4" to go around our 3" main flue] into the deck iron. Either glue it in place [a day or two before install; Sikaflex or hot melt glue would work] or use tape around the outside perimeter of the oversize flue sleave inside the deck iron. 
1. This short piece of oversized flue serves as both additional fire proofing between the main [small diameter] flue and the edges of the deck hole. 
2. It also prevents the Sikaflex from making contact with the main [hot] flue when you get to that step.
8. Drill the pilot holes you marked in step #4, above, for the deck iron fasteners you chose. 
1. Don't drill through to inside of boat... [future leaks]
2. Use a countersink bit to create a small fillet on top of each hole for sealant to flow into, forming a permanent O-ring style gasket for each fastener where it penetrates the deck.
3. And remember to use appropriate methodology if the deck is cored at your flue penetration location...
9. Dry-fit the deck iron with main flue installed underneath to center in the hole in the deck.
10. Remove deck iron again, and insert all fasteners through deck iron, and run a tight fitting, small diameter O-ring up each fastener to keep the deck iron flange tight against the fastener head. 
1. The O-rings will hold the deck iron in position- level above the deck- while you fit it into final position just before adding your Sikaflex gasket.
11. Put deck iron into final position, carefully screwing fasteners into pilot holes until the flange is level [not flat on the deck- unless your deck is level at that location...]  
1. The O-Rings you installed will hold it off the deck temporarily in final position.
12. Double-check that the oversized, short sleave [4" dia x 3" long in our case] and main flue [3" diameter for us] are exactly in position in the hole through the deck, and in the deck iron.
13. Fill the void between the deck and the deck iron completely with Sikaflex 291. 
1. Cut the tube to have a wide tip, and work out from the center to the circumference to help prevent air voids.
14. Once you are sure that the cavity is full of Sikaflex, run a putty knife around the circumference to shape it the way you want. 
1. The above photos were taken shortly after the tape was removed and the Sikaflex was still tacky.
15. While the Sikaflex is still tacky, remove the painter's tape from both the deck [pulling tape at an angle away from the Sikaflex] and the deck iron flange.
16. Clean up any Sikaflex that escaped the tape.
17. Before putting everything away, remember to lay a blob of Sikaflex about the size of the cross section of the thickest part of the gasket on a piece of cardboard, and set it aside near the deck iron. 
1. This will be your tell-tale indicator of how firm [or not] the Sikaflex is under the flange since you now wait a few days before putting any load on the deck iron... [I do this anytime I use any goop to seal something on the boat... Is it set yet?]
18. After a couple of weeks [or whatever Sika recommends] you can sand and/or paint your Sikaflex gasket. [We left ours as-is, and looks great to us in plain white.]

Please share your experiences and alternative approaches with us so that we- and most importantly, others- can benefit from your efforts.

Friday Funny 1-26/2024 (Scenic Tour Continues)

 

Oops, I missed a couple of Fridays, I actually didn't even remember that I had missed them until Sunday. 😁 I guess that's what being retired is all about. Me-"oh, did I miss Friday again?"

Last post, we ended up in Port Walter in a less scenic bay, (oh horrors), then it's onward to Deep Cove. This time, with no other boats inside the cove, we picked out the most advantageous spot, while keeping us safe from upcoming high winds, and making sure the anchor was well set.

Over the next couple of days, this cove provided shelter to several different vessels, small, and large.

This small vessel came in several times, and looked to be a fishing charter, as they cleaned salmon, and halibut every evening. They have such a shallow draft, that they were almost to the bank when they set their anchor. We set out a crab trap, thinking the fish remains in the water would attract them, but nope, never trapped one, or saw one on the pieces/parts. Conclusion: no crabs in this bay.

Gus, as usual, was keeping track of all of the goings on, making sure that no one anchors too close, or incorrectly. 

We had several heavy rain storms, and the large waterfall grew in size, and sound. According to the chart, if you hike up the hill, there is a large lake at the head of this waterfall. I thought maybe it would be a fun excursion, until we started to see bears around the the shore, and they all headed up into the woods in the direction of the lake. Um, no, I don't need to get between the food source and either black or brown bears.

The next bay on the "Baranof east coast" tour is Gut Bay. While every cruising guidebook says this is a very scenic spot, I couldn't find anywhere how this bay got it's name. Gut Bay doesn't sound like a place I would want to visit, that must be why they emphasize the panoramic views.

We needed a place to anchor that would protect from southern winds, while not placing us in the path of williwaws. (A sudden blast of wind descending from a mountainous coast to the sea.) You can hear them coming, it's as if a freight train is headed your way, and then bam, it hits you with force. We've been in them before, and I'm not a fan. The cruising guide suggests another small bay within this large one, but according to the topography, it appeared as if we'd be in the direct path of the wind, so we avoided it. Another little cruiser tucked himself up in there though. 

I loved this one lone tree, it's shape was so perfect it made me want to return in the winter, and decorate it with lights, well almost..... not.

At the head of the bay, there's a salmon spawning stream, the water was so full of fish, you could almost reach in and grab one. Not that I would, by this time, these fish are on their way to the great fish heaven, and totally inedible.

We expected to see bears here, and stayed well away from the shore line, we didn't see any, but that doesn't mean they weren't there.

The next nice day, onward to the next bay: Red Bluff.

A beautiful Chatham Strait day.

Another installment to come, stay tuned. 

As always, we enjoy hearing from you, either here in comments or on our Facebook Denali Rose Sailboat page.

Tidbit: Anchor Chain Splicing Considerations [Updated Oct-2024]

This is one of a series of brief, no nonsense posts that we call a Tidbit:

noun; small and [possibly] particularly interesting items of gossip or information...

The purpose is to share succinct posts about lessons learned, or things we use or do that work [or don't...] that are common to many of us boaters. 

The goal is to garner feedback from those of you having first-hand experience with a better approach/ solution/ product...  

We never assume what we are sharing is the ideal or only; it just seems to best suit our needs [and/or habits and/or budget] from our experiences thus far...

Sometimes these Tidbits originate from a topic of discussion on one of the forums we participate in, and this happens to be one. [The original forum response- which includes additional details- is appended below.]

Since we encounter this question fairly often- and since it may affect other boaters- it made sense to post a more detailed response for future reference.

                   ➛ ➛ Peruse the right-hand sidebar for the up-to-date list of Tidbits ➛ ➛                   

Alternate title: Extending the length of chain anchor rode

This article relates to ground tackle and chain sizes typically used by cruising vessels today up to, say, 60 feet in length.  

e.g., 1/4 — 7/16 inch (and metric equivalents) Grade 43 (ISO and DIN) anchor chain. 

Grades higher than 43 (e.g., Grade 70) are a different matter and require different connectors than those discussed here.

For our needs, splicing two or more lengths of anchor chain together requires a joint at least as strong as the chain being spliced, and the joints need to pass through the windlass gypsy smoothly. 

Note: Our requirement to smoothly pass through the windlass under load limits our choices somewhat. Therefore we will only discuss what we have used and tested in our windlass. 

There are other options available that are at lease as strong as the chain including:. Omega links; 2 shackles; soft shackles; etc., but these options won't pass through our windlass under strain. [Note that I didn’t include Quicklinks as they are not strong enough for our use case…]

Additionally- under the heading of other options- we don't hesitate to use an appropriately sized and constructed soft shackle as an emergency ground tackle joiner, or as back-up for [installed in addition to] shackles or other chain joints. 

What to use?

Most of us immediately think of C-Links for joining lengths of chain:

Unfortunately, even quality forged C-Links [matching chain size] are weaker than our G43 chain. [Substantially weaker in fact; more below...]  

Are there options that will meet our criteria of being at least as strong as our G4 chain, and work with our windlass?

We are fortunate that our horizontal anchor windlass tolerates a twin-clevis link matching the chain size: 

We realize this may not work in some (many?) windlasses under load.
But it is cheap to test, and we think they are worth having on hand anyway...

Following are a couple of short videos of a double-clevis traversing our windlass gypsy under load:

The next video is in slow motion and shows a worst-case scenario of our worn 10 year old chain jumping on the gypsy under load.  Close scrutiny reveals it is not the double-clevis connecting to the length of new chain causing the jump; in fact, it is what catches after a one link hop.  Also note the chain tries to jump a second time, but the double-clevis holds despite being the link connected to the hopping link…

Note: We have since encountered one double-clevis orientation that sometimes stalls the windlass: when it is oriented with the cotter pins facing the chain stripper. [i.e., cotter pins facing the center of the gypsy.]  If this happens under a fair load, the double-clevis jams at the stripper, necessitating reversing it out and rotating the orientation 90° in either direction.   

This doesn’t seem to happen unless under relatively high load. Therefore I try and watch for this orientation, and stop the double-clevis before the windlass and rotate the chain slightly before proceeding; a fairly uncommon event.

You can find good forged and galvanized twin-clevis links  [with SS cotter pins…] in the US$10-$15 range for the typical chain sizes we are talking about here.

The twin-clevis has the added advantage of being quick and easy to install and remove.

Some additional comments about C-Links: 

We haven't used C-links since we have always had very good results using a twin-clevis links, and prefer not to introduce known weak links into our ground tackle system. 

But we do keep some C-Links on hand in case they are ever needed. [If we used one, we would back it up with a soft shackle to back-up a C-Link as mentioned, above...] 

Tip: If you do end up using C-Links, be aware that peening the 'rivets' removes the galvanizing from the rivets, so those tiny rivets soon begin rusting away. 

I have heard from several other cruisers over time thay they found the two halves of a previously peened C-Link loose on their chain because the tiny rivets rusted off over time. 

It has been suggested [credit to Evans Starzinger] that gluing the two halves together with 5200 when installing [before peening the rivets] will likely help mitigate the risk of them separating.

I would also back them up with a soft shackle if I used them on my G43 chain. 

Lets compare these two chain joiners for strength, but first we need to decide which relative strength values to compare.

Tensile [minimum breaking] Strength is more important than Working Load Limit [WLL; Maximum (safe or suggested) working load] for evaluating the strength of components in our ground tackle system.

This is because WLL is based upon an arbitrary Safety Factor [ratio of Tensile Strength] which can (and does) vary by product, country, and sometimes even reselling vendor*. 

But the Minimum Breaking Point [Tensile Strength] is fairly consistent among similarly manufactured components.

We cannot always easily find the Tensile Strength for specific ground tackle components, but the WLL is often listed. 

But what may not be readily available is what safety factor [e.g., 3:1? 4:1?, etc.] that was used to establish the WLL. [e.g., 1/3rd or 1/4th of minimum breaking strength...?]

When doing the math to make sure a component is at least as strong as your chain, remember the connecting links we are discussing [forged C-Links and forged twin-clevises] are listed with a 4:1 safety factor, but our [US made G43] anchor chain is- for some reason- listed with a 3:1 safety factor. [A more conservative 4:1 ratio is used in Europe for G43 chain...] 

Note for reference [again in the US...] that G30, and G70 chain and above are listed using a 4:1 safety factor... [Perhaps to stay consistent with the vagaries of our archaic system of measurement?] 

See the Practical Sailor article in the Additional Resources section below for further elucidation.

Matching our chain with joiners of adequate strength:

We use 5/16" G43 ACCO [US made] chain listed with a 3,900 lb WLL.

With a 3:1 [US only] safety margin for G43 chain; 3,900 x 3 = 11,700lbs Tensile strength. [Minimum breaking strength; nominal]

A 5/16" forged Crosby C-Link is listed using a 4:1 safety margin and a 1,950 lb WLL. Therefore, Minimum Breaking [or Tensile Strength] = 4 x 1950 = 7,800 lbs. [vs. 11,700 for the chain; 33% weaker than the chain; your call...] 

See the C-Link Testing by Cox Engineering for more information.

Now do the math for a 5/16" forged twin-clevis link: [4,700 lb WLL @ 4:1] and you will find it is much stronger than the sames size G43 chain.

Bottom line: if a twin-clevis link will work on your windlass, that is the next reasonably priced, and substantially stronger choice [i.e., not weaker than the chain it is joining...] for joining our size G4 anchor chain [This applies up to 1/2 inch G43 chain size- which is as far as I looked...]

Don't forget to apply this same principle when selecting which anchor shackles to use in your ground tackle system... [There is a similar shackle discussion with product links on our Ground Tackle page if you desire more details.]


Another use for the double-clevis: 

We also use a double-clevis to attach the rope anchor rode [warp] to the main anchor chain.

We splice the 12 plait Dacron warp [Sampson Tenex] to a short piece of anchor chain. [e.g., 2 ft] 

From our Ground Tackle page
[which includes splicing instructions and many other references...]

We then connect that short piece of chain to the bitter end of the main chain rode using a double-clevis. 

This saves us having to redo the rope-chain splice whenever we end-for-end the anchor chain. Instead of cutting the rope and re-splicing to the chain, we only have to remove one cotter pin and replace it when reassembling. 

This works especially well for us because the rope-chain splice is rarely- if ever- deployed...

We are also experimenting with splicing the rope directly to the pin in a double-clevis; eliminating the short piece of chain.   

Why? Because sometimes the chain link the rope is spliced to rusts prematurely- perhaps because it is often kept wet with salt water from the saturated rope- eventually requiring a re-splice. 

If the pin the rope is spliced to in a double-clevis rusted, it could be removed and replaced without having to re-splice the rope. A small but useful gain.

Please let us know if you know of or have used other types of chain connectors that meet our two basic criteria. Thanks!

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Related Resources:

• All about chain types
• *Making Sense of Marine Chain Standards [Practical Sailor Article]
• ACCO Grade 40 [G4] ISO windlass [anchor] chain specs and source [occasionally the best prices I have found in US...]

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Link to original post [13-Dec-2018] which includes additional details...

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster  What make of windlass do you have? The double clevis rides properly in the wildcat in both the horizontal or vertical orientation, or do you have to make sure that it is horizontal?

GM,

Your question makes me realize I didn't provide enough clarity- sorry about that...

I have a horizontal capstan windlass [Lighthouse 1501] with dual 5/16" ISO chain gypsies. [Here is that project— with photos and links— if you are interested...]

What I intended to say is I only have experience with the twin-clevis chain links on my horizontal windlass. [~90° chain wrap.]

If I understand your question correctly, you are asking if the twin-clevis needs to be oriented horizontally in order to feed through the horizontal wildcat. I have tested it both ways and orientation of the twin-clevis doesn't seem to matter. It is worth noting that the twin-clevis link doesn't quite nest into the wildcat like a link of chain does, but it does well enough not to cause the chain to skip/jump- even under load. [However, I will add further link orientation testing to my list next time I have to end-for-end the chain on the docks. The windlass has a manual kedging socket (>10k lbs pull) so I can easily/safely perform some higher load tests...]

You didn't ask, but to close the thought and extend this question to using a vertical windlass: I have no experience, and have not tested it. However, since the chain wrap is typically greater on a vertical windlass [e.g. ~180° compared to ~90° on a horizontal windlass] I would speculate that it would work just as well— if not even better than a horizontal capstan. [i.e., more links to grip, ostensibly further reducing the risk of the chain slipping/jumping.]

It is certainly a cheap experiment to try on any windlass, and I believe some forged twin-clevis links [and C-Links] are handy to have in the cruiser's groundtackle tool box at any rate...

Please let me know if I misunderstood.

Cheers,  Bill

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